Just wanted to make a quick post to the readers regarding some news I just heard a few hours ago. It appears that one of the co-founders of the Rational Response Squad, Brian Sapient, was hospitalized a few days ago due to a violent attack by one of his fellow colleagues, Greydon Square at the recent AHA Conference. Apparently a verbal confrontation arose on account of the mishandling of CD sales and Greydon felt justified in assaulting his old friend eventually till Brian had to be carried off in an ambulance.
The news has been confirmed by some eyewitnesses and even Kelly indirectly confirmed it in one of her comments as you can see here
Though I have never agreed with the RRS and what I consider to be rather bigoted views by them I think it is only appropriate that we hope and pray for the good health and swift recovery of Brian at this time and that justice be brought upon the rather unstable and violent character of Greydon Square. For the Atheist out there as well, I only advise that if you haven't already, please take the time to consider what has happened and to understand that a human being has been hurt (rather severely) on what appears to be unjustified grounds. In this case, please hope for his recovery and please distance yourselves from anyone positively affiliated with this individual (and the person himself) Greydon Square.
Blessings.
-M-
6/10/08
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What's this? Two dudes got in a fight? This really is news! On this rare and momentous occasion, let us all reflect on the greater meaning.
ReplyDeleteI don't know the races of guys, so no real opportunity there. I'm not sure if they are vegetarians or peaceniks. It's too bad too, cuz then we could revel in the hypocrisy. Oh but wait, they're atheists. Cool. That means that the reason they got in a physical altercation is because they believe that there is no ultimate judgment for their actions. Cha-ching!
I don't mock the suffering of a fellow human being. I only mock your cynical opportunism and saccharine sympathy. If Brian Sapient read your post, he'd tell you to screw off. He's got loved ones that actually care about him, even when it doesn't help them advance an agenda.
"For the Atheist out there as well, I only advise..." Thanks, but you appear to be in no position to give advice on this topic. Here's some advice for you: write about something you understand.
Given his antitheism, I'd think a better response would be to ask for people to give blood- he'd take that gesture better. On the whole, it is nice to see you don't want him dead.
ReplyDeleteKuhlmann,
ReplyDeletePlease point out where I made light of this situation, much less why my post is satirical.
Samuel,
ReplyDeleteWhile that indeed would be the more practical approach I don't believe Brian was hurt so badly as to need blood.
M,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry if my own sarcasm didn't come across. I didn't find your post to be at all light-hearted or satirical. On the contrary, I found it maudlin. While it is certainly unfortunate when someone is injured, this incident is far from notable. I question your motives. You wish to imply something about the connection between the aggressor's atheism and his actions. I'm calling you out for your opportunism.
Kuhlmann,
ReplyDeleteI can assure you that this has nothing to do with opportunism. The mother blog to this one (Atheismsucks.blogspot.com) used to counter the RRS claims on almost a daily basis so we have a history with them to begin with. Further, I have a history with them on a personal basis as I have countered some of their members claims on Youtube and elsewhere. One of the debates I had with one of their members actually included a previous criminal offense by Greydon so I am already aware of his behavior.
The reason I posted this was due to having, in the past, encountered the RRS. I sincerely feel that what has happened to Mr. Cutler (Brian) was unfortunate and I only call our readers and the contributors to pray for him or to have hopes for his recovery.
In doing this I wish to express my respect for Mr. Cutler, though he may have none for me or the rest of the Theists that live in this world. I also wish to express that there is genuine care here and that simply because we disagree does not mean we need to treat each other as though we are not human beings.
Many of the Atheists that comment on this blog will tell you that I have neither been unjust or cruel towards them since being a commentator, contributor, and now as admin. While I do not wish to boast on my own behalf, I cannot for once think of a time where I have made light of any sort of situation like this or used it as a form of opportunism to push my "cause".
What has happened has happened and it needs to be recognized by Theists and Atheists alike. The Atheists that post here are just as equal in my eyes as any Theists; we are all human and deserve respect...and I expect the Atheists here to expect out of me and the rest of the contributors topics of this nature when they arise.
I hope you understand.
Also, note that there is no evidence in my writing to suggests that "Atheism" has anything to do with this attack. I've seen Theists be equally as cruel if not more (and vice versa). I don't find any argument in assuming that a world-view automatically motivates one to be violent or immoral in general.
ReplyDeleteWhile I have my own beliefs regarding Atheism as a proper foundation for morality, this does not necessitate that I believe Atheists to be immoral. My main belief is that all people are capable of good or evil and that they will abuse any doctrine, creed, or ideology to suit their desires.
Kuhlmann said to M: You wish to imply something about the connection between the aggressor's atheism and his actions. I'm calling you out for your opportunism.
ReplyDeleteDude, you shouldn't try so hard to read into everything (especially if it leads you to glean stuff other than what the actual words you've read indicate). If you hadn't noticed, this blog is called 'Atheism is Dead'! Ponder that a bit, and then seriously ask yourself, if M or anyone else wanted to imply a 'connection' between the aggression involved here and atheism, do you really think that they'd be shy about saying so outright? I mean seriously... No contributor here can be accused of being coy about expressing what they really think about atheism.
But thanks for the brilliant display of how NOT to pick your battles...
Ever listen to Greydon's stuff? The only surprise here is that it was Sapient on the receiving end instead of a theist.
ReplyDeleteThanks, I actually do respect you for this. I noticed it was alluded to that I don't have respect for theists, and I must say as you probably already know I do what I do because I care for theists. While we disagree on theology we may likely both agree that we do what we do because we hope to help people and make the world a better place.
ReplyDeleteNo blood was needed, but big donations to help cover my uninsured body would help. I understand if prayers are all you can offer, while some within my ranks may be offended by such an offering I recognize it as a sign of the type of humanity you're willing to offer.
Respect,
Sapient
(using Kellys acct, because I'm on her PC)
Well, I suck at basic anatomy, so I didn't know how do being socked in the face repeatedly is.
ReplyDeleteOn the bright side, being well enough to go home means it is more... minor, I guess.
One issue I hope I can bring up here. We don't have Greydon's side of the story. He was in jail until Monday or so I am told. Now I'm all for him facing charges for assault, but it seems a tad extreme to make judgments like Greydon Square has a "unstable and violent character". It seems to be and I do hope you accept my criticism, a tad unchristian, to even suggest "please distance yourselves from anyone positively affiliated with this individual (and the person himself)” Sapient him self said that the man is bipolar and was off his meds. I won't condone his act, but if Sapient is correct, should not the correct response, to hope the man gets the proper medical advice and follow it, to manage a chronic condition? Any type of mental illness is one of the worst forms of suffering the likes of which I wouldn't wish upon anyone. And the worst thing about it is you’re the only one who doesn't know you have a problem, and you can't understand why the world is shunning you.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a Christian, so I'm not too familiar with the metaphysics. But I have read of Jesus's works, and as a man, he was a kind man. He was a sort of man that spoke well of a Samaritan that everyone enjoyed hating. But most important, he spent time among leapers. He was a brave man. He did something to ease the suffering of others and make this world a better place.
I wish Sapient a speedy recovery. I do hope Greydon gets a fair trial, but more important, I hope Greydon Square gets the medical help he needs for a chronic condition that is beyond our science to cure. I hope these men resolve their dispute. Because at the end of the day, no matter what we believe, we share this planet.
For those that aren't into prayer (and those that are) a fruitful response may be to make an effort to understand the larger circumstances and conditions that led up to this undesirable situation. Don't distance yourself from anyone involved... that would just make it harder to reach a good understanding. Rather, try to get an idea on at least part of the complex interplay of social forces, the way they interact with people's preparation for in-the-moment decisions, and then see if you can distance yourself from making the world the kind of place where things like this happen.
ReplyDeleteM,
ReplyDeleteI misunderstood your post. I saw your advice as a patronizing lecture on how to value human life, when in fact you were just suggesting that atheists distance themselves from Greydon Square. Even if I had been right, it really was a poor choice of battles. I just find it very frustrating when a jab weasels its way into a statement of good will, because it forces people who disagree with the jab to either stay quiet or appear callous.
You've made your motivations clear, and I trust that they are sincere. I apologize for attacking you. Please disregard my earlier comments. Thank you for your expression of compassion and civility towards Brian Sapient, and your patience with me.
Sfellow,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your kind response. You are correct in that we should not shun those who need us.
My intention was in reference to the messages that we are all trying to promote. Indeed, Greydon does have Bipolar (as we are told) and that we should be more sensitive to his condition.
However, there are other elements of the story that I think need to be heard...such as the fact that Brian said that Greydon purposefully keeps off his meds for the sake of "creativity". This is not only irresponsible, but immoral knowing that he could be a possible danger to others.
So while I agree that those with mental illness such as these should not be shunned if they truly cannot control themselves or if they don't know they are sick...in this case I feel it is justified.
I used to have some mental problems myself (which I will not go into detail here) and it was dreadful that people were shunning themselves from me because I truly did not know what I was doing wrong.
In this case, I think Greydon did know that what he did was wrong and he was irresponsible for not taking his meds. Other rumors (which have yet to be confirmed) have suggested that he was rather happy with the incident and has no remorse.
A previous event occurred not too long ago either...where he was charged with attempted assault and was claimed to have pulled a gun out on someone. Note my reference to "unstable" and "violent".
I think people should be there for him, but if he's not going to take this situation seriously or be responsible or compassionate enough to understand what he did was wrong, then I cannot in any sense think him innocent in this regard. A Bipolar person, while they may have horrid mood swings and a lack of proper judgment at particular times is not completely and utterly oblivious to the world or what constitutes as moral actions.
Greydon displayed his lack of concern for these precepts, IMO.
It may not be very Christian of me, but I don't have any sympathy for Brian here. Greydon may have overstepped his bounds by beating the crap out of him, but from the sounds of it, Brian got what he's long deserved.
ReplyDeleteI've long held the opinion that despite the "atheist activism" mantra, Brian was using the RSS for his own personal gain--whether financial or to fuel his runaway narcissism. Even now, rather than admit that he screwed up handling Greydon's CD sales, Sapient passes the blame to an anonymous 'volunteer' that likely doesn't even exist, and accuses Greydon Square of being off his "meds". On top of that, he has the cojones to come to this site and beg for cash!
Sapient has a long history of riding other people's coat tails, and Greydon Square is no exception. The only difference between this and the Richard Dawkins affair is that Sapient made the mistake of crossing someone who wouldn't hesitate to put his lights out.
Greydon Square was a core member of the RRS, and party to its inner most functions. I look for some serious backlash against Sapient in the coming weeks.
I don't know what the Christian thing to do is, but I can try to understand what the human thing to do is.
ReplyDeleteI have always disagreed with Brian's stance. The freedom of religion is paramount to the rights of all whether they choose to believe or not.
We don't know that Greydon is keeps off his meds for the sake of his creativity. We don't know if he even takes meds. We don't know that he has a history of violence, and that arrest for an unpaid parking ticket doesn't count. We don't know if a chronic condition was a factor. I know I said he had a chronic condition, but I made the mistake of not looking at the claim critically. I let my feelings get in the way, and I was in serious error, for that I am sorry.
The ultimate measure of a man isn't life without mistakes, but learning from those mistakes. Greydon hit Brian and this was wrong.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=135560351&blogID=405043480
I'm not going to condemn a man for one mistake, a mistake that the police consider to be a minor assault, a misdemeanor.
I hope Sapient gets well
I hope Greydon learns something
"Even now, rather than admit that he screwed up handling Greydon's CD sales, Sapient passes the blame to an anonymous 'volunteer' that likely doesn't even exist, and accuses Greydon Square of being off his "meds". On top of that, he has the cojones to come to this site and beg for cash!"
As for Sapient, if he tells me which hospital he went too, I might toss a couple bucks for his medical bills. Not having insurance is a burden. But I won't toss him money directly because I don't trust him. If Greydon pays for part of Sapient's medical bills, I'd buy one of his CDs. I think that would be the human thing to do.
But make up your own mind, look at Greydon's statement, then look at Sapient's statement.
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/14187?page=1#comment-171782